Business and labor groups say Maine’s latest legislative session had its ups and downs for their members, but union leaders say the downs were pretty deep.
The wrap-up of the 125th Legislature last week also marked the end of the first period in decades in which Republicans controlled the Blaine House, Senate and House of Representatives — and, so, the constitutional offices of state treasurer, attorney general and secretary of state.
Assessments of the session by organized labor and business leaders were, predictably, somewhat different.
“I think Maine people and workers were looking for policies that rebuilt the economy, [and] supported the middle class, and didn’t find that,” said Matt Schlobohm, executive director of the Maine AFL-CIO, which has about 30,000 members. “Instead, from the majority party, we got policies that squeeze the middle class harder, [and] side with insurance companies and big companies.”
Meanwhile, Dana Connors, president of Maine State Chamber of Commerce, said many of the priorities tackled by Gov. Paul LePage’s administration and the Legislature were in sync with key issues identified by a report issued by his group and the Maine Development Foundation, “Making Maine Work.”
“When you look at the two years, you can’t help but be impressed with the results,” he said. “I think it gives the business community the confidence that change is taking place, that priorities are being met.
“Maybe it means they invest in one more job, one more piece of equipment, and so much of consumer confidence is built on that investment,” he said.
Labor leaders saw setbacks when it came to bills passed in the last session that changed the workers’ compensation and unemployment insurance systems in the state.
“Workers definitely took it on the chin when it came to the rollbacks on workers’ comp, and the unemployment insurance bill,” said Chris Quint, executive director of the Maine State Employees Union, which has about 10,000 members.
Quint said cuts to the Department of Health and Human Services also hurt, noting the elimination of 91 jobs at Dorothea Dix Psychiatric Center in Bangor to deal with a decreased budget.
Schlobohm agreed, suggesting that the administration’s efforts seemed to focus largely on a trickle-down economic theory where benefits to larger businesses were seen to also benefit the middle class.
In addition to the bills Quint mentioned, Schlobohm noted passage of bills that repealed collective bargaining rights for child care workers and some farm factory workers.
There were some positives, Quint noted. Labor forces defeated bills that sought to privatize public sector functions, such as the inspection of amusement park rides, he said. And, he said, so-called “fair share” and “right to work” bills aimed directly at public- and private-sector unions were defeated.
And both Quint and Schlobohm said being forced to play defense brought memberships of both unions together — and saw greater cooperation between the two organizations, as well.
“We’re going to take that into the fall and make sure we elect those legislators who will stand up for working families in Maine, and stand against the governor’s attacks on workers which, from our estimation, won’t stop,” said Quint.
Business groups saw the changes to workers’ comp and unemployment as good things. While some in the business community have said the changes didn’t go far enough, Connors suggested the right balance was struck.
“Lasting, enduring change is based upon incremental success,” said Connors. “You can’t eat the apple with one bite.”
The latest session was the shorter one of the Legislature’s two-year term, noted Chris Hall, senior vice president for government relations at the Portland Regional Chamber. And it was right before an election season, he noted, and as such, no major policy shifts were expected.
On balance, said Hall, he saw more wins than losses in the last session. Part of LePage’s education reform package got through, said Hall, and he thought the policy changes regarding standards-based diplomas and teacher evaluations will have a positive impact on the state’s workforce skills gap.
The tax cut in LD 849 also was seen as positive by the business community at large, said Hall. Many Democrats, however, saw it as a backdoor way to pass a taxpayer bill of rights, which voters have rejected in the past.
John Porter, president and CEO of the Bangor Region Chamber of Commerce, agreed with Hall.
“It’s not much, but it’s symbolic and important to businesses that we start to work on that issue,” said Porter.
Hall said he thought advancement on reducing energy costs in Maine was “a miss” in the last session. And he was surprised there wasn’t more discussion in the State House about jobs, Hall said.
“That was a missing piece for me,” he said.
Connors and Porter said their members were disappointed with the governor’s vetoing of a $20 million research and development bond proposal. That veto was sustained by the Legislature.
“The governor had his reasons, but the truth of the matter is in a knowledge-based, technology-driven economy that we’re a part of, where 79 percent of our businesses employ fewer than 20 people, where innovation is a leading feature of any state’s gross state product, research and development is fundamental to any one of those,” said Connors.
Past investments have resulted in commercialization efforts, spinning research out into real companies in the Bangor region, Porter said.
“It’s really disappointing people didn’t have the vision to see that even if money goes to a non-profit, it’s ultimately an investment in the private sector,” Porter said.
Connors said a new law allowing employees to keep firearms in their vehicles at their workplaces was a negative for the chamber. And he said he was surprised the state didn’t do more with setting up a health exchange. Even if the U.S. Supreme Court strikes down the federal Affordable Care Act, it would have made sense for Maine to set up an exchange with the provision that it would die if the federal law died, he suggested.
On the whole, Hall said, continued efforts on regulatory reform, lowering taxes, reforming education are all positives.
“Now we have to start harvesting those things, and we also need to talk more about the investment climate, the demographic challenges facing the state, making sure we’re really freeing up the private sector as much as it needs to be,” said Hall.



Well, I guess if both sides aren’t too happy/mad then it must’ve been an alright year.
Hey, if the unions aren’t happy for one legislature out of the last 40 years, then I’m happy. Common sense finally had its chance in Maine, and it’s looking good.
Common sense? DHHS recently made a decision that is shutting down a nursing home in Calais. The elderly people, many of whom worked hard all their lives and committed no crime except growing old, now have nowhere to go. On top of that, 92 jobs are being lost.
92 jobs in Calais, which is already sadly depressed in the poorest county of Maine. You call this common sense? I call it inhumane, outrageously cruel.
Right across the border from Calais is Canada, and the change is shocking. Businesses are doing fine, houses aren’t run down, people are happy. Why? They all have affordable healthcare, they take care of each other, and their semi-socialist economy, full of healthy unions that protect workers, is thriving.
Common sense? Not at all.
And without our bazillion dollar military they are at the mercy of any country that might decide to do them harm. Ask an average Canadian that has moved to the United States, it’s not that rosey up there.
Ask an American that has moved to Canada, and now can pay for a doctor, and has a much better job market, and better chances for social mobility.
Thanks for ignoring the people thrown out of the nursing home in Calais. I’m sure they appreciate your caring.
Ask any Dr. who has practiced in Canada and came to
practice down here how great it is. Many up there love the healthcare…..
as long as they don’t need to use it. When you speak to Canadians
who are honest, they tell the truth and they don’t sugar coat it either.
And yet, not one country or group has tried to do them harm….. hmmmm?
Is hmmmmmmm the replacement for- I’ve really no thought on the matter? Canada is protected by every US citizen’s dollar-plain and simple.
Why don’t you try to tell the Canadians that? I thought they were fighting by our side in Afganistan. I’m sure they would love to hear your opinion on how we keep them safe.
Trust me-they know something you apparently don’t -We do keep them safe. They are part of the British Commonwealth-we saved all of them in WWII.
Do some actual research on WWII. You’ll learn something about how we saved them.
If not for the Russian’s bleeding the Wehrmacht white, Europe would most likely have been under German control until a negogiated peace agreement was reached.
Nope, hmmmm is the replacement for what I would really like to say but can’t because it would be censored because the statement I was replying to was so stupidly wrong
Who would want to, their Canadians! Invade their country and what do you have? A frozen wasteland that’s good for nothing, and full of Canadians! And yes, I have relatives that live there and they feel the same way.
After all, if we had wanted it, we would own it now!
Do you just make stuff up as you go to make your quota?
lol you’re funny
” Affordable healthcare” is a joke! What you really mean is healthcare paid for by anyone other than yourself! Canada’s system sucks, ask any Canadian in EMMC!!!
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2009/08/never-mind-the-anecdotes-do-canadians-like-their-health-care-system.html
By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health
care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the
Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system
is superior (8%)
Chicago Tribune?!?! I should have known!
50 million Americans can’t afford healthcare at all–and they’d all prefer a Canadian system right now. Just like Canadians do.
People used to go across the border into Canada to buy prescription drugs, until Congress forbid it.
Here’s a fact for you, smart guy;
While I was in EMMC for an extended stay, more than HALF the cardiology patients on the ward were from Canada!!!!! As we sat in the lounge talking they said the healthcare in Canada sucks. They have to wait months to see a doctor! Or they can drive over the border, go to any hospital and say they have chest pain, get admitted on the spot, and get whatever procedure they need before they would even get to see a doctor in Canada.
Now either they were all lying, or THEY KNOW THE FACTS!!! Since they all
live in Canada, I’ll take their word over yours any day!!!
Yet another reference that challenges your anecdotal evidence:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/august/new_poll_shows_canad.php
Do you have any references, links, argument at all? Or just your anger?
The only thing you prove is that even Canadians with MONEY can bump an
American without health care out of a bed. Rich Americans get a bed,
rich Canadians get a bed. You and I would get an aspirin and the phone
number of a crematorium since by the time you got charity care it would
be too late.
The Chicago Tribune is a right wing Newspaper that endorsed GWB for re-election. Their editorial statement of principal (published 2007) is “The Chicago Tribune believes in the traditional principles of
limited government; maximum individual responsibility; minimum
restriction of personal liberty, opportunity and enterprise. It believes
in free markets, free will and freedom of expression. These principles,
while traditionally conservative, are guidelines and not reflexive
dogmas.”
Now, how about debating the actual issue.
Here’s a fact for you, smart guy;
While I was in EMMC for an extended stay, more than HALF the cardiology patients on the ward were from Canada!!!!! As we sat in the lounge talking they said the healthcare in Canada sucks. They have to wait months to see a doctor! Or they can drive over the border, go to any hospital and say they have chest pain, get admitted on the spot, and get whatever procedure they need before they would even get to see a doctor in Canada.
Now either they were all lying, or THEY KNOW THE FACTS!!! Since they all
live in Canada, I’ll take their word over yours any day!!!
So you admit you were wrong about the Chicago Tribune. Why should we trust you? You’re obviously ranting in anger.
You’re the one ranting in anger sprucedweller. That’s all you ever do.
Those aren’t facts. That is what is called Anecdotal Evidence and it is a logical fallacy. Maybe you should pay more attention to actual facts instead of the biased opinions of a few Canadians seeking care here, or do you believe that we should judge the American Health Care system on the Americans’ opinions who went to Cuba seeking Healthcare in Michael Moore Movies Sicko?
How do you like someone repeating the same thing over and over? Getting louder does not work. Evading the issues is what you are doing. Remember the 50 million Americans with no health care. Remember all of the dead children because America has a high child mortality rate? The seniors that have no teeth because in America Dental care is not considered healthcare?
The only thing you prove is that even Canadians with MONEY can bump an
American without health care out of a bed. Rich Americans get a bed,
rich Canadians get a bed. You and I would get an aspirin and the phone
number of a crematorium since by the time you got charity care it would
be too late.
Have you ever talked to anyone that has been through the Canadian health care system? A lot of my customers are from New Brunswick. They come to the U.S for health care to survive.Canadian health care is bad.
You claim. Produce some polls or statistics, like I did above. Or here:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1857600/are_canadians_healthier_than_americans/
Compared to their neighbors south of the border, Canadians live longer, healthier lives. Research published in BioMed Central’s open access journal Population Health Metrics has found this disparity between the two countries, suggesting that America’s lack of universal health care and lower levels of social and economic equality are to blame.Source: redOrbit (http://s.tt/16jr7)
Conservatives rarely, if ever, produce actual statistics or facts because they are hard to come by for them.
Plus, listening to Rush translates badly to being able to produce facts.
Here’s a fact for you, smart guy;
While I was in EMMC for an extended stay, more than HALF the cardiology patients on the ward were from Canada!!!!! As we sat in the lounge talking they said the healthcare in Canada sucks. They have to wait months to see a doctor! Or they can drive over the border, go to any hospital and say they have chest pain, get admitted on the spot, and get whatever procedure they need before they would even get to see a doctor in Canada.
Now either they were all lying, or THEY KNOW THE FACTS!!! Since they all live in Canada, I’ll take their word over yours any day!!!
anecdotal = zero evidence.
But I know a lot of Canadians, and none of them want the American system.
Personal experience trumps your made up beliefs any day. Admit it, your argument is lost!
Wrong, Jon–facts trump anecdotes every time!!
The only thing you prove is that even Canadians with MONEY can bump an
American without health care out of a bed. Rich Americans get a bed,
rich Canadians get a bed. You and I would get an aspirin and the phone
number of a crematorium since by the time you got charity care it would
be too late.
Iam sure i believe liberal rags over actual people. Maybe instead of covincing others how bad the entitlement life in the U.S is. A little listening to actual cases of canadians shipping barely alive relatives to EMMC to save their lives might help. But of course there must be a lib rag out there with that statistic.
The Chicago Tribune is a Right Wing Newspaper. You should do a little research into the paper before claiming it is a liberal rag.
No it wasn’t completely successful as right to work wasn’t a key priority. If you were forced to pay for these schmucks in union dues that you don’t approve, you might see it differently. If Canada’s health care is so magnificent, why are they flocking here for care?
Too bad we don’t have Scott Walker here as governor. Then they would REALLY take it on the chin.
Again, working people lose. The right wing represents the monied interests.
That is what you are led to believe by your leaders because its your money that pays them to live in mansions and drive 100,000 dollar cars. Keep up the good work…
The union are pretty much busted down in this country, man. Go to Canada, with its thriving economic and excellent jobs, and you’ll find lots of unions.
In our country, corporate profits are at an all time high:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/25/corporate-profits-2011-all-time-high_n_840538.html
Not busted up enough yet. But they will be.
And the workers in America are in worse and worse shape. One in four people can’t even afford a doctor, and many of them work 80 hours a week.
Meanwhile, in Canada, where unions are strong, the jobs are excellent, and the economy is booming. They get to see a doctor, too :0
Canada has a booming economy because they have no debt, the advocate for their business and won’t stand in the way of a growing energy sector. Unions are a by-product of Canada’s economic system not a cause of it.
We didn’t have debt or deficit either, when Clinton left office, and he did it by taxing corporations.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/02/11/how_clinton_balanced_the_budget_108853.html
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
He balanced the budget in a booming economy. The taxes did not create a good economy. You have created a horse-cart situation.
Thanks for admitting that unions coexist with and can be a major part of a healthy functioning economy, one with no debt. I appreciate your candor.
Thanks also for admitting that Clinton balanced the budget. Again, I appreciate your honesty.
Unions are a by-product of a booming economy not the cause of it.
Round and round, the cheese wheel goes, where it stops everyone knows……….corporations….gooooood……..rights of people….baaaaadd.
My rights good. Your rights good. You taking my rights bad.
What about YOU wanting to take my rights? I guess its all a matter of perception. You say my rights good. But only if my rights fit into your narrow concept of what my rights should be. If I am a teacher who believes in my right to unionize do you feel my rights are also good? You can start the spin now.
Feel free to unionize its legal….but when your union cuts sweetheart deals with insurance companies to fill up their bank accounts expect me to feel like your treading on my rights.
Just as I thought. Thanks for the validation. Your rights are just “right-ier” than mine I guess! And thats just based on your opinion. Reality may vary.
I see. So the teachers union has a right to have their hand in property owners pockets. That is the attitude they had in Wisconsin. Look what the voters did there.
Give the Democrats the Majority in the Senate less than a year and a half after the Republicans had a super majority in the senate? Or were you referring to keeping the governor in, allowing him to serve out his job for the next six months (until the investigation throws him in jail for his corruption)?
And they don’t throw their old folks out on the street like LePage does.
Unlike you, I research and come to my own understanding of situations that face us all. Being led by the nose by paid toadies of the right wing is not a sign of intelligence, which the right wingers depend on it.
Big labor bosses have been dictating labor and business policy in Maine for the past 40 years, which is one of the reasons Maine has such a ridiculously poor business climate. They have also weighed in on just about every other major policy issue including insurance, environment, taxes and more – always towards the left, towards more regulation and more restrictions on business and more bennies for union thugs and pawns.
It will take years to bring Maine back to the norm. The 125th was just a start. Too bad about the right to work bills. Next time.
Hypothetically, I made over $10,000 dollars this morning. I’m going to pay 15% on it, and I only worked an hour or so. How? A third world country was threatening to pass legislation that prevented children as young as 11 from working 12 hour days in factories. If it passed, it would drive the stocks down. Conservatives stepped in and killed the bill, claiming the unions were bad for business. The children are going to keep working and the stock market shot up. Do you think that’s an ethical way to get rich?
Oh, those are unregulated factories, because it’s good for business, which means the environment is polluted and the children workers get sick all the time.
Like you said hypothetical situation.
You do know that hypothetical means not “actual” , right?
You just made up a bunch of stuff to justify your “actual” position.
That’s unethical.
You have something against hypotheticals? They are used all the time in business, science, logic, everyday life and so on.
Whether I made it up or not isn’t what’s important. What’s important is this is how it works. Bust a union, keep children working in third world countries, stop regulation from protecting the environment, stocks go up, lots of money gets made. Some people make millions, not the paltry $10,000 I mentioned–and they pay 15% tax.
Meanwhile, hard-working Americans work three jobs, 80 hours a week, and still can’t afford a doctor for themselves or their children.
Sad, right?
“Whether I made it up or not isn’t what’s important.”
Okay, trying to debate you is obviously useless!
It’s called a hypothetical. It’s used all the time in business, logic, science, and so on.
Your hate is showing.
Maybe, but your ignorance is blinding!
Best post of the day. Priceless.
Do you deny that busting unions drives stocks up?
And driving up stocks helps EVERYONE (smart enough to be invested!).
So therefor, busting unions helps everyone! Very astute! I agree, and more importantly, so do most Americans!
So people that don’t own stock are just dumb?
That depends…do you own stock?
You said it, I didn’t! But then I can see from your posts that you think anyone that disagrees with you is inferior.
Now everyone only means those that own stocks? Another word redefined to suit a conservative.
Um no. I’ll explain it very slowly so even you can understand it…..
When the market (you know, the STOCK market) improves, everyone (those invested in it and those who are not) benefit from that rise. Now you can hate all those that benefit because you chose (for whatever stupid reason) not to invest, or you can joint those unwilling to sit on their can complaining and whining and make a better life for yourself.
I see you chose the latter. Pity really. Fortes fortuna adiuvat!
Your math is wrong. When the stock market goes up, the 1% get 70% of the profits. When the market goes down the small investors lose as they don’t have preferred stock. The major investors are often board members or CEOs that are being paid to get rich.
The stock market just privatized the profits and socialized the losses.
The stock market has risen 5,000 points since 2008, how well have the majority of people faired in this country since then?
Rising stocks do not benefit all people, they benefit the people who own the stock. For example a company’s stock will usually go up when lay-offs are annouced. How do the lay-offs benefit the workers that got laid off? Or their families? Or the community as a whole?
When the value of a stock rises. The capital investment rises. That means that the company can invest in new ventures. Presumably everyone benefits to one degree or another by the additional money flowing through the system.
You presume too much. The stock market has increased 5000 points since 2008 and by your math everyone has benefitted from that rise in stock.
I just don’t see everyone benefitting from the increase in stock, just teh stock holders.
Of course you need to be able to see it.
So you are seeing that everyone is benefiting from the increase in the stock market?
Where is this nirvana?
He said hypothetically for him.
I’ll wager that some rich person or group made more than that on busting that union.
Which union?
You mean like the hypothetical unhappy Canadians?
Specifics? Or are you only seeing what you believe again?
I have yet to see any of your posts have specifics or facts
Here’s a fact for you, smart guy;
While I was in EMMC for an extended stay, more than HALF the
cardiology patients on the ward were from Canada!!!!! As we sat in the
lounge talking they said the healthcare in Canada sucks. They have to
wait months to see a doctor! Or they can drive over the border, go to
any hospital and say they have chest pain, get admitted on the spot, and
get whatever procedure they need before they would even get to see a
doctor in Canada.
Now either they were all lying, or THEY KNOW THE FACTS!!! Since they all live in Canada, I’ll take their word over yours any day!!!
Pity you Libs only see what you believe!
Right to Work states have a lower standard of living, lower wages, higher poverty level and their unemployment rate is no better than non Right to Work states.
Explain to me how being a Right to Work state is a good thing for workers?
If unions are so great why, when given the choice, to members run away from them as fast as they can?
Maybe you’re right, and the entire rest of the country is wrong!
Unions in Canada are thriving, the job market is great, the economy is thriving, and everyone can afford a doctor.
Does it bother you that 50 million Americans can’t afford a doctor? Do you care about those people?
Maybe if the money directed went to the needy rather than the greedy we would not be in this situation. After thirty years of spending by the left. Why do we still have poor people in Maine.If the democrats would have spent the money on the poor rather than (administration of the program) we would have no poor in Maine. Just take a look at housing.
In Wisconsin the union dues was deducted right out of the employees paycheck, just like taxes, whether they wanted to join or not.
Then…the dues is tax deductible. So you think about it, and tell me who is really paying these unions in the end.
There you go…we are.
That is another ignorant statement. A fair share fee may be deducted. There are no forced Union dues in the US. No one in the US can be forced to join a Union. The whiners are all free loaders that want the goodies for free.
Depends, If they are conservative, then yes I care very much. If they are Liberal, Democrat or Progressive, then no, I don’t care at all. And I’m honest enough to say it!
You should be so honest!!! We all see you don’t give a rat’s patooty about any Conservative, but you’re too righteous to admit it!!!
Members do not run away from them as fast as they can. You and others like you believe the propaganda being put out about unions without doing any research yourself.
I worked in a union shop and none of the workers there were “running” away from the union. The people “runing” away from uions want the union protections but do not want to pay for them, kind of like leaches. Why else would there be laws in so-called Right to Work states that say a non union worker has to get the same benefits as a union worker and be protected just like a union worker?
Um, I was IN a union, that’s how I know how useless they really are! (Unless you are on the receiving end of the dues, that is!)
Preach your stupidity to someone else! There are plenty of gullible wing-nut moon-bats on the Left that will eat your garbage up!
I was in a union and I know how helpful they were when I needed them. I guess you were just not worth helping.
It has been my experience with Unions that when someone was worth protecting or was in the right they would go to bat for them (even if they weren’t in the Union). Generally if someone was worthless they would allow them to be fired and do little to help them. Not saying that was the case in Mr. Sheets case, just that has been what I have seen time and time again.
Sir, you are insulting leeches. The free riders are much closer to ticks.
Wisconsin just lost 40,000 union members immediately.
It doesn’t get any better than that.
I guess only the smart ones left. The Democrats all stayed in because they can’t take care of themselves!
Unions in Germany are thriving as is their economy.
Which union had members run away? Or was that a hypothetical union?
Do you live in a bubble? I guess the lame -stream media isn’t covering Wisconsin.
That is an ignorant statement. All workers always have a choice. No worker in the USA can be forced to join a Union. Try knowing your facts.;
Forced and compelled are two different things. Since the new Wisconsin law came into effect and dues became voluntary not mandatory about 28k members have left AFSCME.
A large number of teachers (undefined) have also left the teachers union.
Actually the dues were always voluntary. What they did was make it less convenient for people to pay them by having money come out of their check upfront. Making it less convenient to pay and then causing a drastic decrease in real wages caused people to give up something that they considered non-essential. Part of the reason they have become non-essential is because collective bargaining has been out-lawed. The Union can no longer bargain for wage increases or benefits in Wisconsin.
Detroit is fine example of how unions work.
It is also a fine example of how corporate greed works.
The company cant make money if unions run the show. That was the companies fault. Once the union ran the show Darwin took over.
Now just when was it that “the unions ran the show” in Detroit? I worked in the UAW for a number of years, but I missed that one.
My guess is you weren’t in on the discussions involving which cars were to be built on which line.
Or maybe how the unions would block smaller cars from being built to compete with the foreign cars because it would cost union jobs.
Or how the pensions and retirees benefits became a out-size percentage of the cost of building each new car driving the cost so high no one would buy one.
I expect you were working the line obilvious to all the media that mentioned those things over the years.
Yes, I was there when GM was trying to catch up with the Jap small cars. I didn’t hear of any union blocking. No, I wasn’t working the line. I will say again that GM never gave one penny to the union employees that they wern”t willing to give. I don’t know where you got your information. Maybe Fox News. Sounds like them. Then again maybe you were there to get your information first hand. There were several non-traditional jobs back then in the auto industry. Non-Traditional meaning they were union workers functioning in salary positions. It was a move of cooperation because both the union and the company realized they had to work together to compete. before that was the time when the American manufacturers were selling Jap cars with American names. They did that because, at that time the turn-around of a new model was too great to be competitive. What auto plant did you work in? Maybe I was in the wrong part of the country. Then again, maybe you got second-hand information and just heard what you wanted to hear.
Its all in the public media.. Some long before Fox even existed.
Wrong. Unions are on every board of directors in Germany. Germany is the best economy in Europe. Unions don’t run the show in Maine and never have. That is right wing drool.
I don’t think I said that unions run the show in Maine. Cut and paste for me please. I think you have context issues.
Germany is doing well because they have little national debt. An educated workforce that is fairly uni-cultural and has a small percentage of its population on what we would call welfare. There are other demographic reason also. Their geography helps also.
The fact that Germany has little national debt and a well educated workforce is a primarily paid for by a higher tax rate than the US has. That and the fact that most German’s are quite happy to pay their taxes and do not feel like their government is stealing money from them vis-s-vis taxes, like a large percentage of American’s feel.
Germany’s welfare expenditure is 27.4% of GDP (33.2% if you include education) while the US’ expenditure is 14.8% of GDP on welfare (19.4% if you include education) which puts Germany at, or around, the 4th highest of OECD member states and the US ranks around 26th. Welfare expenditure has very little correlation on economic performance.
Also, America was once known as a melting pot of cultures and that was considered to be one of the main reason’s the US was such a great country. Now you are claiming (directly or indirectly) that multi-culturism is one of the reasons the US is not as strong as it once was.
As for their geography, they do not have the natural resources that the US has meaning it imports much more or its oil, natural gas and other raw materials so I am not sure why you think their geography helps them more than ours helps us.
And we can argue demographics til the cows come home but they have an aging population just like we do.
German companies with strong labor unions make money.
Canadian companies with stron labor unions make money.
I guess it is just American corporate leaders who can’t figure out how to make money unless they don’t pay their workers a living wage.
Germany lives within its means.
Germany has a higher tax rate than the US which allows it to “live within it’s means” while providing a robust social safety net including a fair welfare system, National Healthcare, excellent public education (both primary and secondary education mostly free of cost) and a strong infrastructure to name just a few things
So union greed = good
Corporate greed = bad
Unions destroying corporations = good
Corporations making any profit = bad
Scarey thing is I’m beginning to see how your brain works (or doesn’t!)
Corporate greed = good
Working people earning a living wage = bad
Corporations saving money by cutting corners on worker safety = good
Workers demanding a safe work environment = bad
Corporations destroying the environment for profit = good
People requiring corpoations take care of their own mess = bad
Scary this is how your brain works (or doesn’t unless told what to think by corporations)
If you were ever working in a union shop, you would know that no union ever got more from a business than they were willing to give! The group that hate unions the most, in my opinion. are the small business bullies who are afraid they won’t be able to abuse their help. There are plenty of them in Maine.
I have worked in a union shop. They destroyed it.
Once the greed of the right wing has destroyed all worker protections, environmental laws, privatized all government functions, etc, etc,etc, then Maine will be brought “back to norm”.
I remember the good old days. They weren’t that good for working people.
Unions were important back in the 1930s. Now only 7% of the private sector is unionized – where are the sweat shops? The unfair practices? Unions have outlived their usefullness. They are an anacronism and a drag on our economy.
Look all over Maine! There is a prevalence of small shops run by an owner who is on some kind of power trip and just loves to bully his workers. I have worked a few and heard of more. Word gets around fast so all you have to do is ask any skilled tradesman you know.
Owner who is on some kind of power trip and loves to bully workers? I can’t believe some of the crap you liberals write. By the way, you should try running a small business sometime.
I have. Why don’t you just ask any skilled tradesman you know. In fact, ask any working man. Maine has always been working against the working man. That’s why the workers have no rights. A boss can come in to work after nursing a hangover and fighting with his wife and fire one of his workers for no reason at all. Some use that fact as leverage against anyone who has the slightest complaint. I am not saying all businessmen are like that, but there are enough to warrent a few changes in the laboe laws. Look at the Governor! He actually believes that businessmen product the products of Maine and I would guess a third of them don’t even know which way to turn a screw.
“Maine has always been working against the working man.”
You can’t make this stuff up!
Have you read about Wal Mart? You pay for their employee health care. The huge warehouses they use in Cal. where there are 24 hour ambulances standing by because of the conditions. Unfair practices? Work for a pension for 30 years, keep your promises, retire and have your pension raped not to cut expenses but to give tax breaks to the rich. The last one is Maine.
Do you actually believe this stuff you write?
Right to sponge, right to freeload. Right to work for minimum wage.
I think you need to start doing your own research and not taking what the liberal media says as gospel!
….
If your stupid enough to drink it that’s your problem. What I said didn’t identify me as either a Republican or Democrat…merely stated that before regurgitating the crap the media puts out and calling it facts that a little research might be done first.
====
Actually an educated person would know that doing their own research and not believing either side of the political aisle’s mouthpieces serves them a whole lot better. Both the liberal and conservative media have an agenda and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. But nice try…again I have not revealed which side of the aisle I am from how very judgmental of you to assume…and we all know what happens when you assume now don’t we.
If I could find “the liberal media”, I would think about what they have to say. If I could find a right winger that is trustworthy, I would listen to them. But sadly there are very few of either.
1%ers tend to be Democrats.
Yes, and the poor CEO’s and silver spoon Republican’s aren’t? LOL
There are more educators among the ranks of the 1% than there are CEOs.
That is a dumb analogy.
There are many more eduycators than CEO’s. I’ll bet that a ;arge percentage of CEO’s are in the 1% and that a very small percentage of educators are in the 1%.
Nice try, though.
Um, aren’t those the same ‘monied interests’ that employ most workers? Or do you work for a poor guy?
And you think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
I have often times worked for the poor and middle class. When I sold trucks, they were the ones to buy them. When I made dirt, they were the ones to buy it. When I manufactured conveyor systems, they were the ones who bought the goods that the conveyor system moved. All the rich do in this country is take from those who actually produce and then claim they earned it.
I think unions are a good option for some companies… I do not believe that the State, cities, towns should have the right to unionize, because there is not a way to rate their value at a state job… Lets say a paper Mill is unionized, since it’s a for profit company it has to make a profit. If they make a profit and are happy with it, so be it.. You can’t judge performance in the public sector… Look at the education system and what happened to it. kids can’t read and the teachers get to keep their jobs. PUBLIC/PRIVATE are 2 different things.
PUBLIC/PRIVATE are 2 different things.
There IS a Common Denominator.
They are called people, and people should be given Equal Rights.
Its an interesting concept, its in the constitution.
Actually it isn’t. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government needs to recognize unions or do what they want. That is up to the individual states (in this case). Look at Wisconsin where the voters decided that public sector unions were not going to get everything they wanted. Nothing in the Constitution prevented that.
You again prove that you dont have any idea as to what you are talking about or what is in the Constitution.
1. The First Amendment allows for freedom of association, the Govermnet cannot tell an individual that he cannot belong to a Union.
2. The Fourtenth amendment gives the right for equal protection under the law.
The Government cannot negotiate with one entity under a certain set of rules and enter into a contract and dissallow another.
Time and Time again across the States courts have upheld the right for workers to belong to a Union under the first amendment. North Carolina comes to mind. Although the right to freedom of association was upheld in this case the Right to contract was not .
However,
Walkers Attack on the Teachers Union was put to the test and did not pass the test of the fourtenth Amendment where as it allowed for different set of rules for the Police Unions.
Where as governments enter into contracts and negotiations in a wide parameter of buisness dealings it is yet to be tested that a corporation can enter into Contract Negotiations with Government and a Union cannot.
Believe me it will be tested in private schools contracting versus public employee contracing in the future.
A good part of this is true but the bargaining can be limited and that is what the gripes are about.
The government also does not have to recognize that union. It is a two way street, fellah.
They cannot recognise one and not the other.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/federal-court-strikes-down-parts-of-act-10-4k4qdap-145208985.html
Pay attention to what you read. The struck down provision dealt with differences in how the state worked with different unions within the “public sector”. It did not strike down Wisconsin’s restrictions on collective bargaining.
edited to add: The ruling is under appeal and the motion is stayed for the time being. The court also noted that “Of course, the state could change its law to prohibit withholding for all unions, but that is not within the purview of this court.”
Of course they can belong to a union. The government just doesn’t have to negotiate with them.
Tell me which Court decision agrees with your analysis.
Let me answer that. None.
Free association
n.
1. A spontaneous, logically unconstrained and undirected association of ideas, emotions, and feelings.
Also an accurate description of your post.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/federal-court-strikes-down-parts-of-act-10-4k4qdap-145208985.html
Walker Did not get the Part that would decertify the Union or the Fair Share.
If he has to keep the Public Unions for the Safety Reasons that he suggested he has to keep them all!
Except he doesn’t have to give them everything they ask for. In this case he didn’t. That decision was upheld by the people of Wisconsin by retaining Walker as Governor.
It’s a fallacy to assume that something is right just because a majority says it is right. A very poor form of logical reasoning, actually.
Maybe, but this Republic allows for majority rule, not the tyranny of the minority.
You mean the tyranny of 500 corporations (“persons”)?
They should have gone on strike. It is useless to cow down to a bully like that! The same holds true for Maine
If they had gone on strike the union would cease to exist. The union knew that.
I guess you never got the memo about the National Labor Relations Act?
Courts make unethical decisions all the time.
Especially liberal courts.
More like Citizens United, a decision by the Supreme Court that opened the door to unlimited corporate spending on campaign propaganda. A real nail in the coffin of democracy.
Citizens United was an excellent decision. It allows special interest unions to fund political efforts with no limitation.
Unions are almost dead in this country. Corporations are gods, with record profits:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/25/corporate-profits-2011-all-time-high_n_840538.html
Unions are by far the largest source of political funds in the country.
Wrong:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/top-donors-2012-election-romney-obama-gingrich
Do you have any evidence for any of your claims? One link? One argument? One reference?
Especially conservative courts, and especially especially the present Supreme Court.
You mean corporations are recognized as persons in the Constitution?
There is nothing in the US Constitution about unions.
The United States has existed for over two hundred years under the Constitution. That’s a lot of water under the bridge. Labor relations and rights have been fought for and recognized in legislation and court decisions repeatedly in that 200 plus year span of time. Much of modern America’s law and legislation is not mentioned in the Constitution, but Americans over time have continued to make decisions essential to the changes in America. If I had wanted to reply to you as I would have had to in 1790, I would have written with a quill pen.
Tell me then if all you say is true why was the Wisconsin legislature lawfully able to change the law?
laws aren’t always ethical, are they?
I think public sector unions are inherently unethical.
Some people think the moon is made of blue cheese.
Did you know that Forbes magazine says the happiest countries in the world are all borderline socialist states?
————
[The happiest countries] are all borderline
socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries_print.html
er …
There is nothing in the US Constitution about unions.
Or corporations being persons.
Or unions being persons.
The argument is moot anyway. Unions are on their way to extinction. Either by their own hand or at the hands of the voter in the case of public sector unions.
Unions gain their membership by extortion anyway, either with sweetheart deals with insurance companies in the case of teachers or forcing states to compel membership and dues collection. Wisconsin is a good example. Once an employee was free to pay his/her dues voluntarily more than 50% of the states AFCSME membership declined. 62k to 28k. Union membership in the teachers union is harder to get numbers on but there is no reason to not think that membership in that union has not dropped as well.
Look at all these big corporations that pay no taxes, wow:
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/apr/10/tax-evaders-wall-shame/
How much were Goldmann-Sachs and AIG given in the bailout, again? Billions of dollars in taxpayer money? Isn’t that socialism for the rich?
Goldmann Sachs was forced to take the bailout money and they have paid back every bit of it.
So it was the equivalent of socialism, our taxpayer money going to bail out big banks.
Many conservatives opposed the bailouts. That along with Obamacare were the two biggest reasons for the Tea Party.
You did not pay attention. GS was forced to take the bailout dollars.
Many were forced to take “bailouts” including banks not so big from right here in Maine.
after borrowing it from a different branch of the government.. Like pay off your credit card with a credit card. They still owe it.. it’s an Obama smoke and mirrors trick. (-;
So you’re for a level playing field, neither corporations nor unions count as persons, because neither one is considered in the Constitution, right?
No, I am opposed to any restrictions on political free speech being imposed on any person, group or interest regardless of their ideology.
except for unions???
No, that includes unions.
You just said: “No, I am opposed to any restrictions on political free speech being imposed on any person, group or interest regardless of their ideology.”
Sounds like you have a double standard!
The problem with that is that corporations–if you let them be persons–have much more power than a real person. Why? Because money is power. One dollar = one vote.
Have you sold your vote for a dollar? I haven’t.
When I was in college I sold my vote for a beer to a Democratic state legislator. Does that count?
I’d say the end result of drinking that beer signifies what most here think of your rationale.
Or money being Free Speach
and what happened pat,, your union leaders have led your astray.. I bet their retirement packages are safe. You are the gatherers for their pleasures.
There’s nothing in the Constitution that says corporations are people either.
Governor LePage insists that the way to improve education is by having better qualified teachers. How do you accomplish this? If you want a better group of employees, the American way is to pay more. That’s basic economics. The only way to raise the benefits of teaching, or even to maintain the level that we now have, so that you will attract the “best and brightest” into the profession is through collective bargaining. The benefits of teaching under the present administration is eroding particularly with regard to retirement benefits. So how is that going to make teaching look like a good alternative?
Governor LePage is illogical. He doesn’t like the teacher-work force we have at present but he seeks to make it less attractive and somehow improve the teaching profession.
it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that our education system rots…. kids are stupid.. so are the teachers… the unions have dumbed down the system so that there is no requirement for performance…our system is broken .. unions are part, not all, but part of the problem.. parenting is part of the problem..collective bargaining shouldn’t even be a topic.. teachers are teachers because they want to do that work, we know it couldn’t be the pay that attracts them…job security ? it’s the system .. we, the USA is ranked somewhere like.. 39th in the world for education.. wouldn’t you think that being first would be better ? and possible.. discipline , accountabilty, responsibility… these a subjects.. to be taught in the home and in the schools.. Unions have no value in education.. they just create a liberal mindset, and collect money , a lot of money…
….
I see some utility in a teachers union, and it is about job stability. When hard choices have to be made at the local level, it is easier to jam more students into one classroom than it is to not repair a bridge, reduce firefighter training, or police coverage. An appropriate contract with the teachers’ collective bargaining agent can help with those choices…but that’s it. And the union needs to work with the locality to make those decisions, and the union needs to be able to make some hard calls. A contract is not a suicide pact.
Doing contracting and being is different businesses for years. I can tell you right now, if I had given everyone a $10 an hour raise they would not have moved any faster or produced any more then they were already..
Some kids can’t read. Having been a public school teacher yeras ago I would challenge you to take a hard look at some of the parents of these children. My daughter could read before she hit public school. Plunking your children in front of video for hours at time puts them at an extreme disadvantge when other kids have parents and gran parents working with them before they ever meet one of our public school teachers.
blame exchange.
“Maybe it means they invest in one more job, one more piece of equipment, and so much of consumer confidence is built on that investment,” he said.
Maybe!
Thats all that they have to offer?
Maybe?
More than Likely they will just pocket the extra money to buy the next election.
The answer is simple—-“GET OUT THE VOTE AND GO VOTE!!!!”
If the state dose away with unions how are they going to deal with say 5,000 or more people coming into the office at once wanting a raise an benefits ? Look at all that lose time .
Get your shovel out!
LOL
??????
what about fair share that state employees have to pay for nothing. Just so the democrats could get votes when baldacci was in charge. That not fair to the employees, Repeal fair share!
Unions and Obama are joined at the hip and only care about one thing, themselves. Unions cry about the loss of benefits, wages and jobs. Granted we need police, firefighters, teachers etc. But those that are ineffective should be replaced. Have you ever heard a teachers union say, yeah, we are ineffective and that is why your child is failing. No, they always blame the learning on any and all other factors as it is never, ever a teachers fault. Most small towns in Maine have volunteer fire departments that run just fine. In the larger city fire departments the unions hold sway and they forget that they are there for the public safety not public swag!
Whenever unions and Obama lamant the state of the economy they always talk about putting teachers, fire fighters, police officers and construction workers back to work. You never, ever hear them say lets put the waitresses, office workers, conveinence store clerks, etc. back to work as it does not serve there self interest.
Unions are a blight on the economic engine of this country and we are better off without them.
No, your right. We should go back to the way is was for workers before we had unions, because it was super awesome and fair. Without unions there is a constant and dramatic downard pressure put on the wages and benifits of working people. There is no example you can provide where this is not the case.
We should instead recognize that the benefits and work standards that justified some unions 50 and 60 years ago are already codified into law and that such is no longer an excuse to proliferate unions. As for public unions, there is no justification for them.
Governor LePage provides the justification. We need better teachers according to him.
We certainly need teachers focused on teaching classical subjects and need far fewer administrators. There is absolutely no need for the NEA and it’s affiliate unions.
Teachers do not have free rein in what they teach
Teachers and administrators as members of the NEA have been instrumental in influencing curricula and the agendas of their liberal supporters.
Rupert Murdoch owns an international media empire, has been deemed “unfit” to lead in the UK, and spews dogma through Fox News.
yes and the same rep lawmakers who site these laws for a excuse to get read of unions want to over turn these laws
BS … nobody talks of eliminating the child labor laws or the “40 hr reg pay week” or a host of other established labor safeguards.
Oh lordy…do you not remember how Burns introduced the lovely “learning wage” for people still in school (including college) of under $3.00 an hour…for their first 6 months on the job.? Or what about increasing the hours and how late kids can work? Those efforts were attempted by the Teapublicans in Maine.
There is not a thing wrong with kids working part time jobs. It builds character and work ethic. As for minimum wage, I favor eliminating it altogether. The vast majority of all jobs exceed any minimum and the minimum wage decreases the number of part time jobs available for kids.
I’m with you, I favor getting rid of minimum wage too, and replacing it with a living wage.
You also are in favor of increased unemployment among kids and unskilled young people.
Nope, when you pay a living wage, you create job creators, more people with more income means more buying, more buying equals more jobs. Trickle down doesn’t work, trickle up just might.
Please explain how increasing a wage or salary above that determined by supply and demand for those services increases employment.
Simple. Look at spending, who spends a higher percentage of their income, the wealthy, or the middle and lowers classes? You pay a living wage to those that are attempting and failing to live on minimum wage, and sales will skyrocket. This is easily enough proven. Pay attention to sales numbers during income tax refund time. Poor and middle class people spend it. So yes, the employer incurs higher wages paid out, but those same people are going to spend their money. So if you have 100, 1000, or 10,000 people who were on minimum wage and not spending, now on a living wage and spending, then sales go up. The restaurant has more customers, more electronics are being bought, more houses are being bought, more cars…
The Republicans and the Chinese fear the same thing, a strong middle class. Trickle down keeps the rich rich, and the poor from getting out of poverty. Trickle up works for the poor and middle class, but the 1% wouldn’t go for it because they would only make 25% profits rather than 30-40%. The GOP loves to complain that the Libs are socialist, but when it comes to matters of money, no one is closer to a Communist than the GOP.
You need to read my post above. You live in a fantasy world.
I think you will need help with that request …
If a business is currently paying $8/hr (or even twice that but I’m being arbitrary) and the wage is forced to $10/hr, it is very likely going to force subsequent reductions in the labor force. The reason for this is simple. If a business employs 100 people, it will incur $1.6 Million just in wages. Take that to $10/hr and that cost jumps to $2 Million. Because $400K additional cost has now been forced on that business owner, there is now an incentive to make capital investments to improve efficiency. If I could reduce the workforce by 10 people by expending $400K in capital investment, I could shave $200K/yr of that additional cost giving me a 2 year payback on that investment.
That means I would reduce my workforce by 10% and would be forced to pass through the additional costs to consumers or find ways to trim the workforce even more. Of course these are arbitrary numbers but this is how business economics actually works in practice.
The nut of it all is that liberals are stupid.
Stupid Bill Gates. Stupid Warren Buffet. Stupid Steve Jobs. If only they could be as smart as you this country would really prosper.
You know, when you speak in angry insults it makes you look weak. Like you can’t argue well. I suggest you try reason. It will advance the discussion for all of us.
If you get rid of the minimum wage then the downward pressure on wages would increase. That is why business owners and Republicans are against the minimum wage.
If losing the minimum wage protection would not result in lowering of everyone’s wages, why would business owners (except those only paying minimum wage) care about the minimum wage?
Since the vast majority of wages are already above minimum wage, there is no pressure to move below it. The reason wages are above minimums is because there is a demand for those services. Lacking demand, wages either fall or unemployment increases.
Then why are corporations pushing so hard to get rid of minimum wage if it is not going to force wages down for the rest of the work force? Why would companies that already pay more than the minimum care what the minimum wage is?
Follow the money and you will see that multi-national corporations are funding the efforts to repeal the minimum wage laws so that they can start to force wages down in the US and finish their goal of making the US a 3rd world economy.
Corporations are not pushing hard to eliminate the minimum wage. The rest of your post is pablum.
Then why are Republican’s so intend on getting rid of the minimum wage?
After all they do what their corporate masters tell them to do.
Republicans are not so intent on eliminating the minimum wage. Most interest to do so is generated by libertarians e.g. Ron Paul.
Only an ignoramus seriously thinks that Republicans are slaves to some “mythical” master.
Name one thing Republican’s have done that helps people over corporations, or even helps people as much as corporations?
Well put!
Very true. Unfortunately, some people will blindly follow republicans/teapublicans, and eat up every piece of misinformation like it is candy.
There was an effort during Bush’s first term to redefine a non overtime position as anyone who had a supervisory position over other workers or worked unsupervised as being disqualified from overtime laws whether or not they were hourly employees..
That is just one attempt that I can recall off hand. There are many others.
Supervisors are generally salaried to begin with but I would like a valid reference for what you are stating.
I have both been a supervisor and worked for supervisors that were paid by the hour, I have also worked at a job that was unsupervised that paid by the hour. Both would have been exempt from overtime if the Republicans had had their way
“…Urging President Bush to scrap the rules, the Kerry campaign and organized labor say the regulations will exempt up to six million additional workers from receiving overtime pay by redefining which workers qualify for time-and-a-half pay when they work more than 40 hours. But the administration asserts that no more than 107,000 workers will lose their eligibility, while 1.3 million workers will gain the right to overtime.
In essence, the hundreds of pages of new rules redefine the criteria for which administrative, professional and managerial workers qualify for overtime, among them nurses, chefs, pharmacists, funeral directors, claims adjusters and restaurant managers…”
Here’s your reference…
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/23/us/controversial-overtime-rules-take-effect.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
They would only be excluded from overtime if they were exempt salaried employees. You didn’t pay very good attention to the article. Hourly supervisors are not considered exempt salaried positions.
If you had read the article and done some extra research you would have discovered that the new rules would have exempted HOURLY supervisors and others that may have some supervisory responsiblilty or workers who work unsupervised.
Or do you need me to hold your hand for you while doing research on the internet or do you need me to find more links for you?
It would have reclassified some hourly positions to exempt salaried positions. No need to hold my hand. I’ve worked with job classifications, both union and salaried, for over 20 years.
So hourly personel would have lost the right to over time because of their reclassifcation to exempt status. Therefore Republican’s would have limited some hourly workers from being able to claim over-time benefits.
Sounds like a slippery slope towards eventually exempting all hourly from over-time if Republican’s had their way.
WRONG, former presidential candidate Newt Gingrich suggested we get rid of unionize janitors and replace them with child labor.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/newt-gingrich-child-labor-lobbyist_n_1105178.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/gingrich-calls-child-labor-laws-truly-stupid/2011/11/21/gIQAFYKHiN_blog.html
Gingrich proposed we allow high school kids to have part time jobs ot build character and work ethic and eliminate grossly over paid union slackers. That is a good thing.
And some Republicans want to change the laws.
There have already been efforts by Republicans to get rid of the Minimum Wage laws, Child Labor laws and Overtime laws, not to mention laws and regulations regarding worker safety and environmental protections.
Without unions to fight the Republicans those laws may have already been weakened or overturned.
If all of the products sold at the Wal-Mart were manufactured by $25.00 per hour US union workers -what kind of increase would you see in the price of what you buy there? I’m asking the question-not taking a side.
Well, currently the vast majority of products sold at Wal-Mart are made by Chinese workers for roughly $1.00 per day while working in brutal conditions. I personally avoid the place like the plague.
You are fortunate, most people can’t afford to do that-especially here in Maine with so many older or retired folks on fixed incomes.
Well then the retired population of the State of Maine can thank the Chinese government for making execution the punishment for attempting to form unions in Chinese factories.
Here’s the bottom line; if you live in the US and have basic skills and no education you are going to be paid like a third world worker. Unions get you a job-EDUCATION gets you a career-they are different.
There are too many thousands of college graduates working low pay service jobs who can’t even afford to pay off their student loans to be making “bottom line” blanket statements about anything. Also, it sounds like your taking sides.
Young people are taking courses of study that they enjoy that may not get them a high paying career oriented position. Engineering, medical jobs of all sorts, pharmacy, physical therapy, machine tool, the list goes on and on for jobs that don’t have enough trained people to fill them right here in Maine. That Sociology, or Anthropology degree gets you $10.00 an hour without a masters or PHD.
To a certain point, I agree with your statement. Don’t take it too far though, there are plenty of people with practical degrees that are in the same boat. Maine’s problems are more demographic (mainly, too old) rather than young people picking the wrong college major.
“We are the world…..we are the people….”. “We are all equal. Everyone should have their fair share. There is no good or bad, right or wrong. All nations deserve a voice no matter how large or small.” – These are the very words with which every Progressive has attacked the United States and American job producers within our economic structure for decades.
So….
If in your world there is only moral equivalence, why do you feel morally superior to the Chinese in demanding $20.00 per hour knowing they will do the work for a fraction of what you feel American workers are worth?
You (plural) wanted that world…..you (plural) got it.
Just asking…
Uh, I’m sure what you just wrote made sense to you. Sounds like you created a nice fantasy strawman so that you could then knock it down. Generally its been conservatives who believe in open globalization while our evil unions have tried to be more protectionist, but whatever you say….
b…girl…, profit is not a dirty word. Private money does whatever it needs to do to stay private. This goes for every person who has invested in the stock market regardless of their party ideology or affiliation. Generalizations just don’t cut it.
Big government has a nose keener than a bloodhound for sniffing out private money and Progressivism has snapped a leash on every whiff it finds in the form of government control. It’s no wonder that private money would seek to invest in countries like China so before you accuse the job creators you’d better find a better bloodhound than the government owned dog, brought to you courtesy of every United States taxpaying… voter.
But if everyone made $25 an hour they could afford the prices that Walmart would charge.
Retirees?
So we should force down wages of the working class so that retirees can shop at Walmart? If people make more money they can help out the retirees that need the help.
How does the US economy recover if the working class gets paid less and less? It can’t.
I agree with you 100%, but to qualify, there have been labor unions since B.C. Most of the negative comments in these opinions are written by either people who don’t work hourly jobs or don’t work at all. they have never lost a job because they were the highest paid in the shop or because the forman couldn’t bully them. They don’t care about job security.
That’s because they know they can leach off the state so why should they work
Actually what it would do is reward the good workers and give the lazy ones an incentive to get off their butts and start producing. If you ran a business you would want to do the same I am sure. Andersen windows has a profit sharing system that rewards employees based on production and company profits. You don’t need a Union to make that happen. Just a willing work force that believe that hard work is rewarded. Unions do just the opposite. They protect the deadwood.
This is just wrong in so many ways. Maybe the workers of whom you are so concerned should be unionized. That would be the waitresses, office workers, convenience store clerks, etc. If they were unionized and employed “strength in numbers”, they would get a better shake. What leverage does the convenience store clerk have in dealing with Irving Oil in getting a better deal? Talk about David and Goliath! Your poor convenience store clerk doesn’t even have a rock let alone a slingshot. Here is his negotiating plan. “Please, sir, may I have more porridge?” If Convenience Store Clerk doesn’t like his wages or lack of benefits, then his main concern would be not letting the door hit him in the butt on his way out.
I did a little check to see how right to work states compared with the alternative. Right-to-work states (and is that ever a euphemism) have a very slightly lower unemployment rate and a much lower median family income. So there is your trade off. If you weaken unions you end up with a few more jobs and a much lower standard of living.
Republicans and conservatives pull off one of the greatest cons in history in convincing the working class to vote for them. It’s like slaves practicing the religion of their masters.
Unions and their supporters bow at the feet of His Majesty Trumpka and Worship at the alter of Obama.
Trumpka, you mean Donald Trump, the one backing Romney?
“Get a better shake,”…how much do you want to pay for that “shake” when the Irving convenience store worker is paid $16.00 per hour?
And when that Irving convenience store worker goes to the local emergency room because they are ill you pick up the tab.
$16 an hour? I’ll pick up an application on my way home from my present job!
It also puts more money in the CEOs pockets at the expense of the working man and his family
Close the plant in the states and move it over seas, The union employees are out of work and the CEO gets a big bonus for saving on labor..
Back in the day there was no union for Freeses’ clerks. It was a 6 day week and add a Friday evening until 9 for a whole $20 a WEEK. No pensions, no benefits. Some of the ladies worked there for 20 years and were glad to have a job. The jobs in Bangor were few and far between, just like now, except if you want to flip burgers etc. $1 an hour came in at some point and lasted until into the 60’s. By moving to the DC area in 1964 the pay increased by $30 a week for the same job. Why is Maine years behind in everything job wise?
So you want to take away the right of a business owner to hire qualified personel.
I am not totally against unions, I’m against the people who have no respect and abuse the companies they work for with a mob mentality union backing them. No profit no job… It’s not the unions company…
Unions don’t own companies for a reason, they can’t afford the help.
GM was stolen by Obama and given to the unions., The company has closed a lot of shops in the States for cheaper labor in other countries.. .. So the unions themselves know labor is to expensive.
There were hundreds of union fire fighters who perished in 9/11. They put their life on the line, just as fire fighters do everyday.
Damn you and your kind for the hate you spread.
he never disrespected fireman at all, quite the opposite. Where did you get that??
And as of 9/11 playing that card is getting old. Remember Pearl Habor… It put us into a war that we were allowed to win.. 9/11 card is done.
I stand by my comment.
The right wing used the union fire fighters tradgedy of 9/11 at every chance they got and it wasn’t to help them.
There are not going to be many more public trough feedings for the unions. The people of this country are getting damn tired of a tiny minority extracting huge wages and benefits at our expense.
This week voters in two cities and one state punched public sector unions in the nose. The public tires of being held hostage and the people hold the purse strings and are letting the unions know at the ballot box.
The property owner has had enough.
I voted for an increase of the school budget in Bangor yesterday. But I would feel more comfortable with that vote if I knew that the teachers union did not have the same kind of sweetheart deal insurance companies that allows the union to pocket a portion of my tax dollars that the teachers in Wisconsin used to have.
When you have the likes of the Koch Brothers and the Super PACS pumping in millions of dollars to fund hit pieces and out-right lies against unions that is what you get. People voting agaisnt their best interest because they don’t know any better.
Which interest is that? Do the Maine teachers pocket money from union insurance deals. Did I vote against my own interest?
When you have unions outspending everybody else to fund hit pieces and out-right lies against decent people, that is what you get. Liberals vote against their best interest because they don’t know better i.e. the neo-communist Obama in 2008
I’ll use your hyperbole…
Conservatives vote against their best interests because they don’t know better ie. the neo-fascist Romney in 2012.
Obama can be documented as a radical leftwing neo-communist.
Romney cannot in any sense be documented as a fascist, neo or otherwise.
So start listing all the things Obama has done that are radical left-wing communist actions
Unionization of government employees should be outlawed.
You can thank President Kennedy for signing the law allowing the creation of public-sector uinons. Camelot? More like Dante’s Inferno.
When free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost. Ronald Reagan, 1980
Of course, Reagan subsequently broke the back of the air traffic controllers union.
A Republican hero was 2 faced, I’m shocked!
air trafic controlers make 2 grand a week plus benies. Their pensions are half their wages plus healthcare for life. you can retire in your early 50’s if you have your time in.
Be careful. When you take away the rights of one group, you take away the rights of all. So much for the Conservative garbage of smaller government! To them that means less restrictions on businessmen to beat down the working man.
Democrats=lets increase the unemployment benefits and welfare with tax and spend policies. Republicans=lets do away with excess taxes and wasteful spending so the the decreases in unemployment and welfare money are because jobs are being created.
Taxes are lower then they have been since the 1930’s. Where are all the jobs that should be getting created?
Unions much like welfare was great idea at the time. Since then they have been turned from a great idea into an massively exploited system. In the end unions breed attitudes of false entitlement and a complacent workforce.
Not at BIW
Really? Is this a joke?
No the union workers have done a lot for BIW an the union it self has done a lot for the company . Who do you think found cheaper insurance for the company it was the union. The workers at BIW always get the ships done under cost an a head of time so i guess that the union has hurt the company .
People must understand that unions are nothing more than advocates for themselves and their members. They have no civic duty or reason to do what is right for our economy or for non-union workers. They will gladly take the money of the non-unionized plumber to pay the benefits of the unionized plumber. That is their job. People need to stop looking at unions as if they are a noble entity. They are lobbyists, period, and they are good at what they do.
If capitalism is fair, then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor.
People must understand that corporations are nothing more than advocates for themselves and their shareholders . They have no civic duty or reason to do what is right for our economy or for their workers. They will gladly take the money of the consumer to pay the benefits of the CEO.
That is their job. People need to stop looking at corporations as if they are a noble entity. They are lobbyists, period, and they are good at what they do.
Union leaders spout the same rhetoric as Democrats. Ohh the Reuplicans are evil and hurt the middle class and support Big Business. I am middle class and everything the democrats have done or attemted hurt me.
Response to Politically Right. Right ON! Not everyone canwork for the government although the liberals are working hard in that direction and before you have an employee, you first must have an employer. A rare breed today.
I have a private sector job fulltime for a large company. Myself and many friends survived layoffs just to do 2x the work without the compensation. We are thankful to have a job and suck it up. Unions have a place and a had a time when they were really needed. Suck it up.
You get sick or hurt an see how long you will last you will be thrown out like a broken part
Notice how there aren’t any Democrats screaming how biased the BDN is, since all the comments are from conservatives? No comments from democrats whining about how their comment wasn’t approved, or that the BDN is only allowing comments from cons? Responses I continuously see from republican conservatives, when the article or comments aren’t leaning in a direction they favor.
Does anyone here see the irony in the fact that a large portion of these public union people voted for Obama whose inept handling of the economy has force states and municipalities to reduce employment, salaries and benefits for the public employees?
Scott Walker and Paul LePage were both elected in 2010 in reaction to existing political trends. Already in Wisconsin the public service unions have lost significant numbers of their members. My mother used to often tell me “you reap what you sow”
Minorities and young people all of whom voted overwhelmingly for Obama are faced with extraordinary numbers of unemployed. Four more years for the community organizer and the unions will be out of business.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290.html
There is, now, a house-of-cards feel about this administration.
It became apparent some weeks ago when the president talked on the
stump—where else?—about an essay by a fellow who said spending growth is
actually lower than that of previous presidents. This was startling to a
lot of people, who looked into it and found the man had left out most
spending from 2009, the first year of Mr. Obama’s presidency. People
sneered: The president was deliberately using a misleading argument to
paint a false picture! But you know, why would he go out there waving an
article that could immediately be debunked? Maybe because he thought it
was true. That’s more alarming, isn’t it, the idea that he
knows so little about the effects of his own economic program that he
thinks he really is a low spender.
Who cares what unions think, they are increasingly irrelevant and part of the problem not the solution!
Ok say you own a company an you have say 3,000 hourly workers would you want 3,000 people lined up at your office door to talk to you about a raise an more benefits how would you deal with that ? Wouldn’t it be easer to deal with say a 10 person commity ?
So people that aren’t invested in the stock market are just dumb?
Most of the small time investors have left the Stock Market a long time ago, never to return. They have been burned, robbed, so many times by insider trading and crooked CEOs that never go to jail. The Stock Market is fixed, just a rigged Casino game for the Super Rich and the Hedge Funds. If you want to keep your money, invest in a good Mattress with a Zipper. You may not get an interest return, but the principle amount you put in will still be there for you every morning.
So people that aren’t invested in the stock market are just dumb?
By the way, trickle down doesn’t work. We’ve been cutting taxes on the rich, and driving the stock market up, for decades.
The people invested in the stock market are dumb, … It is make believe.. It’s like Federal reserve notes.
The stock value of a company has nothing to do with it’s real value… One day a stock is worth $5 a share, the next $2 then the third it’s worth $15 a share and has for no reason. speculators have bastardized the system… and take the small investers money.
45,000 deaths a year in the US because people can’t afford health insurance:
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/
2,500,000 deaths a year in the US with health insurance.
Stay away from hospitals. They are death traps.
50 million Americans can’t afford healthcare at all–and they’d all prefer a Canadian system right now. Just like Canadians do.
People used to go across the border into Canada to buy prescription drugs, until the GOP-led Congress forbid it.
Milk is taxed in Canada and they pay over $6 a gallon for it. They too are playing a money game but at a higher level. 14.5% production tax on everything built in Canada… The taxes go on and on.. I like Canada yet I choose the USA to live in.
What has Matt Schlobohm ever done except leach off of the unions?
The ticks (entitlement crowd) have pretty much drained the host (the taxpayer). When will people realize that the financial crisis in this country is not caused the yuppie driving BMW owner not paying enough in taxes… but rather the majority of us (150 million strong) getting something from the government! Latest Stat’s: Next year farm bill 100 billion… 82 billion for food stamps a 100% increase since 2008. That’s 770 billion over 10 years. Total spent in the USA next year on roads and bridges 40 Billion. Simple math. Next time you’re in line with a putz buying pringles and Tyson’s fried chicken with their EBT card and pulling cash out for beer and smokes remember these statistics.
Thank you Gov. Walker, now hopefully the
rest of the states will understand the taxpayer
is tired of supporting bloated pension plans
that are negotiated by the union and with people
who want the union vote.
You taking my rights bad.
Oh stop crying. I bet a lot of Union Workers voted for LePage as did Union Workers voted for Walker. Seems Union Labor have become self destructing. You Union Fools voted for these Fascist Governors. The first thing Fascists do when they take power is DESTROY ALL UNIONS. Guess you Union people skipped that History Lesson in High School. If Romney wins, you will see him team up with the Corporations as did the National Socialists did in Germany in the 1930s. It has already started. Fox propaganda News, Joseph Goebbels couldn’t be more proud.
What happened in Wisconsin this week is just the beginning. It won’t be too long before we wipe out all public employee unions
Spruce gum and hemp kill brain cells..and produce Hypothetically thinking people .. they detest facts from those with real life experience ie one who thinks they have common sense!!